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cameron

ah, another example of the diverse opinions that constitute tribe. :-) echoes of our difference of opinion regarding communion.

i actually enjoy having an occasional tribesunday at which we *don't* say the lord's prayer.

my personal experience has been that the lord's prayer has lost meaning to me from over-repetition. like the pledge of allegance we used to recite in gradeschool every day... the words of which few of the kids ever understood the meaning of! (i think it's rarely said in schools these days). i prefer using the prayer as a guidline of how we *might* pray but using our own words.

what i've started to do recently is to stand quietly while everyone else says it. because (not to speak for anyone other than myself) i find i'm slipping into the very thing jesus may have been cautioning against immediately before uttering the lord's prayer in matthew:
matt 6:7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. (nasb)

so i stand silently. no big deal, i guess. unless some (particularly visitors) are distracted by my silence and failure to conform. i am a gentile after all.

i like how "give us day our our [actual meaning of this word is unknown, but translated "daily"] bread is usually interpreted to mean: give us just what we need for today, and no more. that has great meaning vis a vis the "prayer-of-jabez", "name-it-and -claim-it" world.

i believe the most important thing is to do what helps you connect with god.

please feel free to continue to say the lord's prayer each sunday.

blessings,

cameron

--Editor's note: Fixed line breaks so it displayed better. -5 --

andii

There is of course the challenge of what to do with this bit of Jesus's teaching [the Lord's prayer] if you don't repeat it regularly in some way. And it would seem that though mere rote repitition isn't in the Spirit of our Lord's teaching in Matthew, Luke's version seems to expect it. I would argue that a set prayer repeated gives a resource to draw on in everyday life and is in any case no different at that level to a worship song or phrase used for reflection on a regular basis. A value of repeating the prayer is to fix it in memory. And a purpose of fixing it in memory is to reuse it as a basis for our own regular praying. This pattern is what God wants us to use as an agenda to talk with Him on a regular basis and there is a psychological-spiritual flow to it.

I would suggest having a look at http://abbeynous.schtuff.com for further thoughts, a link to a book on the Lord's prayer and further ideas on praying the prayer in a variety of ways including the narrow sense of 'liturgically' you mention above.

dave

yeah, i like the sound of people reciting the lord's prayer together, but it does tend to become:

r.fothr hooartn hevn
hallowed b.thyname
thykingdumcum
thywillb.dun
on erthasitisinhevn
givusthisdayr.dailybred
anfergivus r.detstrespassessins
azweefergivthoze r.detterzhootrespassinaginstus
anleedusnotintatemtayshun
butdeliverusfrom evul
ferthynisthekingdum,thepaeranthegloryferever
a.men

i think is was intended as a model of how to pray. that said, memorization is important, and there is a beauty and power in reciting it together...once in a while.

dave

larry

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